TooOld, please explain to me why these companies are not making money hand over fist now? Or maybe I should ask the question WHEN DO REFINERS MAKE MONEY?

Ok oil is now below 50 bucks a barrel and their stock prices STILL GO DOWN!!!!!!!!! Ok I can understand more people out of work less demand for gasoline. But I'm sorry if you are out of work you still need to go to the super market to pick up your weekly supply of peanut butter and jelly.

I think I will never understand their business.

context, bear, context - take a deep look at all the stock held companies out there. How many are up over the last 2 months?

Yep - this sector or that sector should be up but common sense has left the room and emotions are in the drivers seat for the time being. don't expect any single company's stock behavior to make sense for a while.

maybe this will at least serve to shut tboneless down for a while.

Valero has been underpriced for at least three years.